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Author Topic: Nation  (Read 774 times)
illy
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« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2007, 06:39:52 PM »

Neither of your comments (concerning religion or morality) was accurate, nor is your characterization of my thoughts in your last post.

It's sad that what you posted is nonsense and that you have no rebuttal other than to try to tell me what I believe and how I see the world.


Just because you read something on a website doesn't make it true (especially if the website is trying to tell you that separatism and multiculturalism have the same goal). If you want to exclude people go do it on your own property.
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« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2007, 03:31:24 PM »

Just because you read something on a website doesn't make it true (especially if the website is trying to tell you that separatism and multiculturalism have the same goal). If you want to exclude people go do it on your own property.

Again, this is dealt with in the section you quoted. Multiculturalism strives for diversity, for cultural identity & group autonomy. But this is compromised with liberalism & becomes a doomed attempt. These cultures must function within liberal confines: a regime hell-bent on raising consumers & a government unable to represent their values, as to do so would neglect and offend various other nations under their rule:
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Multicultural societies do not allow for cultural diversity in the long run, for there must be significant compromise. Our new residents must adhere to the overriding dogma of liberal democracy that let them in, which effectively homogenises societies into tacky individualists following a culture that, unlike the low culture of the past, lacks continuity, ingenuity, and bases status on consumption rather than creation. After a few generations whatever culture is left will be commodified remnants; the 'richness' of multicultural societies has a lifespan. Multiculturalism is a great thing, but something that the world should host.

Nationalism strives for diversity, for cultural identity & group autonomy. Nationalists realise that throwing a plethora of nations into a single state & assuring them they can preserve their way of life is a serious threat at best. Is it surprising that the next generation adopt a fashionable use of symbolism that sheds the meaning but keeps the tokens moving? These societies are built on the idea that a country is a mere convenience through which the individual can make some money & pursue an inane 'lifestyle'. Vicious individualism is generally not the finest way to induce holism. Startling, I know.

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It's sad that what you posted is nonsense and that you have no rebuttal other than to try to tell me what I believe and how I see the world.

If someone thinks what I posted is nonsense, then it is their job to rebut, not mine...
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Biker Dude
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« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2007, 04:14:46 PM »

If someone thinks what I posted is nonsense, then it is their job to rebut, not mine...
Frankly, what you posted is incoherrant.   Wink
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Totino
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« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2007, 12:44:54 AM »

If someone thinks what I posted is nonsense, then it is their job to rebut, not mine...
Frankly, what you posted is incoherrant.   Wink
Man, I saw his name and his first post and was about to post that. You beat me Sad. Applauded
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Biker Dude
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« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2007, 05:23:18 AM »

Frankly, what you posted is incoherrant.   Wink
Man, I saw his name and his first post and was about to post that. You beat me Sad. Applauded
[/quote]Sorry...And thanks!
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« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2007, 12:56:00 PM »

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Frankly, what you posted is incoherrant

*Frankly, what you posted as Incoherrant is incoherent (?).

If someone thinks what I posted is incoherent, then it is their job to rebut. Otherwise it's a baseless, emotional reaction, or an attempt to increase a post count.

If people spent as much time developing arguments as they did throwing around unfunny one-liners, this place may stop looking like a kindergarten. Computer mediated socialising? [http://www.anus.com/zine/articles/cmc/]
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Ahkenaten
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« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2007, 01:34:59 PM »

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If someone thinks what I posted is incoherent, then it is their job to rebut. Otherwise it's a baseless, emotional reaction, or an attempt to increase a post count.

Well no. Actually the OP is so dependant of ambiguous conclusions (i.e. communities are forced into multiculturalism -- we could argue all day about that before the OP moves on to it's conclusion) that people probably don't know where to begin. It IS incoherent. Much the same way as if I began a story about Noah's Ark that automatically assumed the story was real.


So if you spent as much time developing a more rational OP maybe people would bother spending the time to argue it, unfortunately we are mostly all too familiar with the 'assumptions' point and the extrapolations or leaps of logic that are ever present with threads like this.



Ahk
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Totino
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« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2007, 06:40:03 PM »

I'll just go with layman's terms here: How can you make a rebuttal if what the other person said doesn't make any sense?
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« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2007, 04:40:07 PM »

Communities living in multicultural societies are subject to that society...

This is the logic you question?

A state accumulates a number of nations in its borders, preaches ‘multiculturalism’ (an entirely inaccurate term), & what are the people faced with if it was not their will? As for new residents, is what awaits them a more secure & prosperous grounding on which to establish their community, or a battle to retain their culture & values in the face of a government that cannot represent them, & pervasive marketing assuring them identity is about image, & therefore fluid.

Aside from this, the OP (which consisted of a few quotes from a larger article) asserts that nationalism need not have anything to do with hate & that multiculturalism is a misguided attempt to preserve diversity.

Oh, isn’t it great to be united by the knowledge that we exchange tokens in the same territory! What better basis could there be for holism, eh?
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