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Author Topic: Evolution v. Creationism/Intelligent Design  (Read 1075 times)
jpn of Seattle
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« on: November 13, 2007, 09:50:21 PM »

Here's a synopsis of a PBS documentary on PBS tonight, on the Evolution v. Creationism Intelligent Design trial in Dover a few years ago:

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Two years after a trial over the teaching of intelligent design, a public-TV documentary retells the courtroom drama in a style that the judge in the case says is "almost like a whodunit, with a science angle and a sprinkling of the law besides." But unlike "Law and Order," the story didn't end when U.S. District Judge John Jones III issued his withering 139-page ruling equating intelligent design with religion. Instead, Darwinism’s detractors are back with a vengeance.

"Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial," premiering tonight, isn't your typical "Nova" science documentary: The two-hour show combines archived video, up-to-date interviews and courtroom re-enactments to flesh out the story behind Kitzmiller v. Dover. Along the way, "Judgment Day" examines the decades-old cultural roots of the conflict as well as the contemporary findings behind modern-day evolutionary theory.

The way "Nova" tells it, the tale began at Pennsylvania's Dover Area High School with the mysterious disappearance and burning of a student-painted mural tracing human origins. Soon afterward, school board members started asking questions about how evolution was being taught.

Eventually, the board required school staffers to tell their biology students about intelligent design - the claim that some characteristics of living organisms are so complex that they're best explained as the handiwork of an intelligent agent (God? aliens?). Some of the teachers bristled at this, so much so that they filed suit against the district.

"Judgment Day" traces the courtroom arguments for each side, with biologist Ken Miller as a star witness for the pro-Darwin plaintiffs and biologist Michael Behe leading the anti-Darwin witness list. (The judge and the witnesses are generally played by actors in the re-enactment.) Because scientific findings were so central to the case, we learn about some key lines of evidence such as the fusion that resulted in human chromosome 2, the transitional fossil fish known as Tiktaalik, the rise of the bacterial flagellum and other phenomena.

The show also reveals how the trial divided the Dover community outside the courtroom. For example, husband-and-wife biology teachers were labeled as "godless" even though they were leaders at their local church. Another rift, between local newspaper reporter Lauri Lebo and her fundamentalist Christian father, never had a chance to heal.

After the six-week trial ended, Judge Jones (a Bush II appointee) surprised observers by issuing a strong rebuke to intelligent design's supporters. Jones wrote that the concept was "a religious view, a mere re-labeling of creationism, and not a scientific theory." Because the pro-ID school board members were voted out en masse in an election the previous month, there was no appeal.

"It was a case for our times," Jones told NBC's TODAY show today. But as "Judgment Day" makes clear, the case did not end the controversy. Intelligent design's backers - led by the Seattle-based Discovery Institute - are continuing the fight using fresh strategies.

One strategy is to look back in anger, branding Jones' decision as an outrageous case of distortion and "judicial activism." That's the tack taken in "Traipsing Into Evolution," a Discovery-published tract that runs to almost as many pages as the decision itself.

Another strategy is to go back to basics and focus on Darwinian theory as the root of evils such as eugenics, lobotomies, sterilizations and sexual excess. That comes through loud and clear in the advance notices for "Darwin Day in America," written by Discovery senior fellow John West. In this, West appears to hark back to the "Wedge Document," which saw attacks on scientific materialism as the first step in a cultural rollback to a more God-fearing society.

And yet another strategy is simply to keep up the pro-ID drumbeat through a proliferating succession of blogs and podcasts. As "Judgment Day" makes its premiere, intelligent design's proponents are taking aim at the show - and even at its teaching guide.

Ironically, the Discovery Institute's Robert Crowther accuses PBS of encouraging public-school teachers to violate the Constitution by telling their students that evolutionary theory isn't necessarily inconsistent with religious belief. Crowther argues that merely making such an observation would itself be a religious statement.

It all goes to show that the Jones' judgment didn't put an end to the intelligent-design debate - but of course, we all knew that two years ago.

To get the updated picture from Darwin's defenders, you can click on over to the National Center for Science Education, as well as the Pharyngula blog and Panda's Thumb. For a status report on the creationist battle for the "hearts and minds of America's teachers," check out this article from Discover magazine.   Consult our Dover trial archive to take a walk down memory lane - and feel free to add your comments below.

P.S.: The best thing about "Judgment Day" is that the entire two-hour documentary will be freely available for watching online later this week.

The documentary will be available on-line on November 16, here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2007, 10:06:31 PM »

Ironically, the Discovery Institute's Robert Crowther accuses PBS of encouraging public-school teachers to violate the Constitution by telling their students that evolutionary theory isn't necessarily inconsistent with religious belief. Crowther argues that merely making such an observation would itself be a religious statement.

That's rich.
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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2007, 04:01:26 AM »

Another strategy is to go back to basics and focus on Darwinian theory as the root of evils such as eugenics, lobotomies, sterilizations and sexual excess. That comes through loud and clear in the advance notices for "Darwin Day in America," written by Discovery senior fellow John West. In this, West appears to hark back to the "Wedge Document," which saw attacks on scientific materialism as the first step in a cultural rollback to a more God-fearing society.

Oh my, I did know it... I did know it... Shocked

Reasoned Faith is merely parroting the official agit-prop sources to which he is tapped in. How unoriginal. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2007, 04:44:32 AM »

Ironically, the Discovery Institute's Robert Crowther accuses PBS of encouraging public-school teachers to violate the Constitution by telling their students that evolutionary theory isn't necessarily inconsistent with religious belief. Crowther argues that merely making such an observation would itself be a religious statement.

That's rich.

It is certainly not a scientific statement.  Nor is it unequivical.  It requires elaboration to be understood and that elaboration necessarily will be religious and philosophical.  If the point of this trial was that only science should be tought in science class. PBS is deviating from the message.
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2007, 05:14:34 AM »

It is certainly not a scientific statement.  Nor is it unequivical.  It requires elaboration to be understood and that elaboration necessarily will be religious and philosophical.  If the point of this trial was that only science should be tought in science class. PBS is deviating from the message.
'If'?  You are not familiar with it?

The part that was interesting to me was this part...
Quote
After the six-week trial ended, Judge Jones (a Bush II appointee) surprised observers by issuing a strong rebuke to intelligent design's supporters. Jones wrote that the concept was "a religious view, a mere re-labeling of creationism, and not a scientific theory." Because the pro-ID school board members were voted out en masse in an election the previous month, there was no appeal.
Was it their pro-ID stance that got them un-elected?  This makes it sound that way.  And if that is the case, their constituents were definitely NOT pro-ID.  And they were NOT representing them with a pro-ID stance and curriculum.  Self interest and a pro-fundie stance before doing their jobs?  I don't know all the facts, but it is interesting.
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Now that it is over, what are we going to talk about?
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2007, 05:56:32 AM »

Ironically, the Discovery Institute's Robert Crowther accuses PBS of encouraging public-school teachers to violate the Constitution by telling their students that evolutionary theory isn't necessarily inconsistent with religious belief. Crowther argues that merely making such an observation would itself be a religious statement.

That's rich.

It is certainly not a scientific statement.  Nor is it unequivical.  It requires elaboration to be understood and that elaboration necessarily will be religious and philosophical.  If the point of this trial was that only science should be tought in science class. PBS is deviating from the message.

Typical Discovery Institute tactics. Everything but commit acts of science. It was Nova, not 60 minutes , for Christ' Pete's sake. They were given ample opportunity to make their case. Neither Behe or the DI participated. Behe learned his lesson during the Dover trial when his cowardly comrades determined which way the wind was blowing and hightailed it back to Seattle, leaving him twisting in the wind. As with all movements based on fantasy, the strength of the argument is inversely proportional to its adherents willigness to make their case in an open forum. If they can't control the flow of information, they don't participate. Look at the circling of the wagons at Uncommon Descent. Contrary opinions need not apply.

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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2007, 06:04:18 AM »

exactly. its a hallmark of psuedoscience. the dodos have realized that they are not viable as a science and must retreat to the ecclesiatical universities and write opinion books instead of submit articles for peer-review.
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2007, 06:44:35 AM »

It is certainly not a scientific statement.  Nor is it unequivical.  It requires elaboration to be understood and that elaboration necessarily will be religious and philosophical.  If the point of this trial was that only science should be tought in science class. PBS is deviating from the message.
'If'?  You are not familiar with it?

Actually I am.  In their complaint, the ACLU focused on the motivations of the Board members and not the content of science instruction in the classroom.

Many in in the ID community backed away from the trial when the primary Defense Attorney defined a strategy that they did not concur with just prior to the beginning of the trial.  What is interesting is that the Discovey Institute advised the Dover School Board not to pursue the path that ended them up in court in the first place because of issues over motivations and approach.
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scripto
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2007, 07:42:34 AM »

Quote
Was it their pro-ID stance that got them un-elected?

No, it was wasting a million dollars of taxpayer's money to bring this nonsense to court (against the advice of the school district lawyers)
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2007, 07:53:00 AM »

It is certainly not a scientific statement.  Nor is it unequivical.  It requires elaboration to be understood and that elaboration necessarily will be religious and philosophical.  If the point of this trial was that only science should be tought in science class. PBS is deviating from the message.
'If'?  You are not familiar with it?

Actually I am.  In their complaint, the ACLU focused on the motivations of the Board members and not the content of science instruction in the classroom.

Many in in the ID community backed away from the trial when the primary Defense Attorney defined a strategy that they did not concur with just prior to the beginning of the trial.  What is interesting is that the Discovey Institute advised the Dover School Board not to pursue the path that ended them up in court in the first place because of issues over motivations and approach.


What is even more interesting is that, despite Dembski's bluster that the DI team would "put Darwin in a vise" at the earliest federal court opportunity, the DI team dried up and blew away. It is quite clear that ID as a science was going to be on trial and if Dembski et.al. had the courage of their convictions they would have put up some kind of fight, win or lose. At least Behe had a pair, although he apparently lost them when NOVA came calling.
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2007, 09:12:22 AM »

Behe is hocking a book now. On ID you ask?  No, a criticism of Darwin.  These guys are ridiculouso!
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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2007, 09:34:35 AM »

Ironically, the Discovery Institute's Robert Crowther accuses PBS of encouraging public-school teachers to violate the Constitution by telling their students that evolutionary theory isn't necessarily inconsistent with religious belief. Crowther argues that merely making such an observation would itself be a religious statement.

That's rich.

It is certainly not a scientific statement.  Nor is it unequivical.  It requires elaboration to be understood and that elaboration necessarily will be religious and philosophical.  If the point of this trial was that only science should be tought in science class. PBS is deviating from the message.

What's ironic about it is that a man pushing to inject religious dogma into the education system criticizes someone else for supposedly doing the same thing.

It is indeed, rich with irony.
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2007, 05:02:55 PM »

Ironically, the Discovery Institute's Robert Crowther accuses PBS of encouraging public-school teachers to violate the Constitution by telling their students that evolutionary theory isn't necessarily inconsistent with religious belief. Crowther argues that merely making such an observation would itself be a religious statement.

That's rich.

It is certainly not a scientific statement.  Nor is it unequivical.  It requires elaboration to be understood and that elaboration necessarily will be religious and philosophical.  If the point of this trial was that only science should be tought in science class. PBS is deviating from the message.

What's ironic about it is that a man pushing to inject religious dogma into the education system criticizes someone else for supposedly doing the same thing.

It is indeed, rich with irony.

Robert Crowther does not push to inject religious dogma into the education system.  He is not being ironic.
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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2007, 05:29:25 PM »

Are you sure were talking about the same Robert Crowther?

I was talking about the guy from the Discovery institute. That place with the ID theory they'd like to put in schools. You know, the one that a conservative judge labeled "a religious view, a mere re-labeling of creationism".

That's the guy I was talking about.
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2007, 07:22:06 PM »

Quote from: Reasoned Faith
In their complaint, the ACLU focused on the motivations of the Board members and not the content of science instruction in the classroom.
In any case, the trial was about whether ID should be/could be legitimately included in the sciences.
It could not be.

Quote from: Reasoned Faith
Many in in the ID community backed away from the trial when the primary Defense Attorney defined a strategy that they did not concur with just prior to the beginning of the trial.  What is interesting is that the Discovey Institute advised the Dover School Board not to pursue the path that ended them up in court in the first place because of issues over motivations and approach.
Sure they backed away. Some real scientists were going to be on hand, determined to show what a house of cards ID really is.
And they did.

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