kactus
Full Member
Karma: +6/-29
Posts: 238
|
 |
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2007, 12:10:38 PM » |
|
Major...,
First off the evidence is in your face. Either dispute it or accept it. Choice is yours.
Second, don't make things up! Nowhere in this article does it say that Mossad publishes the lists of sayanim. It quotes an 'Ex-Mossad' agent that sayans like Sarkozy assisted Mossad.
Third, the article does say Sayan is the hebrew for 'collaborator'.
Fourth no one said that sayanim is a life long status. Yet Sarkozy is alleged to have "colaborated" in assisting Mossad. This is not about him putting Israel in front of France on every single issue but rather his stance on foreign policies that concerns middle east. And regrettably as the "lion King of France" he does have the desire to do so only to serve Israel. The argument here purely becomes academic. That's where his loyalty lie and that's where the french interests becomes secondary.
You want to argue fine but be civil! Resorting to rants and insults as some people here do will not make me stoop to your level and will get you nowhere!
Again if you feel strong enough by jumping the bandwagon and accuse me of blaming joos go ahead! Never throughout the entire thread here did I say a word about blaming them. I criticise their foreign policy and their politicians not the people. Yet this is the classic example of people like yourself regurgitating the same stuff as soon as one mentions something about jooos by calling others with different views as anti semitic/ or blaming joos.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Fredledingue
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +30/-31
Posts: 868
|
|
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2007, 02:59:22 PM » |
|
No kactus, Zee is right.
Sarko doesn't give a damn about Israel and his french political carreer is far more important.
No president of France would stay one week on power if he was even remotely rumored to serve Israel's (or anyone else) interrest instead of France.
You conspiracy theory is totaly over the top and just good for some cartoons or something.
Geez, he's got the transport strike, the university reform, the pension reforn, the economy etc Do you realy thing he god damn have the time to care about Israel? Seriousely.
But we do have OUR opinions about Iran, indendantly of Israel. That's something you refuse to admit.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
 Dr. Zoidberg is jewish (and an important AIPAC donator!)  |
|
|
|
14-years-old-jane
|
|
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2007, 09:24:24 PM » |
|
the thing copied article from Iranian propaganda site and claiming afterwards "facts in your face"? Go pray or something
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Each time homosexuals make sex, 1-2 babies die and 1-2 constipations are solved ...
|
|
|
|
Peisithanatos
|
|
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2007, 08:49:13 PM » |
|
What is controversial? Where is the "conspiracy theory"? Let's sum up the facts.
The President of the French Republic is partly Jewish. Fact. His Jewish roots are meaningful to him; he's not a freewheeling cosmopolitan like Trotsky. Fact. He cooperated with Mossad. Not an established fact, but a high probability, since a former Mossad agent says so.
Now let's speculate. Sarkozy is Jewish and is attached to Israel and has worked with Mossad, - could there be an identity factor in the new foreign policy of the Republic? COuld there? Is it a conspiracy theory to suggest that France has suddenly taken a strongly pro-Israeli stance because the new president of France is an ardent Zionist? IS this something insane, below dignity of an educated person? Is it something ridiculous that Sarko has been tough on the French Arabs and tough on Iran because he is Jewish?
The party he represents traditionally takes distance from the US. The Gaullists are considered anti-American. The Gaullists never supported AMerican military adventures. The French public doesn't support war on Iran. Moreover, the French, according to the polls, consider the US as the most dangerous country in the world. And further, the French Companies, the Total in particular, have huge interest in Iran and are not inclined to see their investments endangered. There is absolutely NO structural explanation to the sudden change of policy, not in terms of the Gaullist politics, not in terms of the corporate influence. So where does this warmongering crap come from? From Sarko's own personal Zionism which he has apparently proved "beyond reasonable doubt".
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
a big pile of bs covered with a thick layer of sugar
|
|
|
ace10
Newbie
Karma: +3/-0
Posts: 14
|
|
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2007, 05:30:44 AM » |
|
The only facts you are not summing up, are the fact that Sarkozy has never hidden his positions and ideologies, and the fact he was elected to rule by a majority the French people at least in part because of them. Those are the only important facts.
You can disagree with him as much as you like. Thats OK. But all the other mumbo-jumbo conspiracy theories are just that.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
ace10
Newbie
Karma: +3/-0
Posts: 14
|
|
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2007, 05:55:45 AM » |
|
What is controversial? Where is the "conspiracy theory"? Let's sum up the facts.
The President of the French Republic is partly Jewish. Fact. His Jewish roots are meaningful to him; he's not a freewheeling cosmopolitan like Trotsky. Fact. He cooperated with Mossad. Not an established fact, but a high probability, since a former Mossad agent says so.
No, no former Mossad agent said anything about Sarkozy. Read the (Iranian propaganda site ) article again. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Peisithanatos
|
|
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2007, 01:40:19 PM » |
|
no former Mossad agent said anything about Sarkozy you're right. The Iranian article made it implicit that Ostrovsky was speaking of Sarkozy. The source of the story is an anonymous letter sent by e-mail to a hundred of French officials. The author of the letter could be Revolutionary Guard itself. the original Le Figaro article here: http://www.lefigaro.fr/france/20071012.FIG000000291_les_etranges_accusations_d_un_cybercorbeau.htmlHowever, I'm convinced that the new French course on Iran is mainly a result of Sarko's personal Jewish identification. As well as of other influential Jews around Sarko, like Pierre Lellouche. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
a big pile of bs covered with a thick layer of sugar
|
|
|
|
|
ace10
Newbie
Karma: +3/-0
Posts: 14
|
|
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2007, 04:38:08 AM » |
|
no former Mossad agent said anything about Sarkozy you're right. The Iranian article made it implicit that Ostrovsky was speaking of Sarkozy. The source of the story is an anonymous letter sent by e-mail to a hundred of French officials. The author of the letter could be Revolutionary Guard itself. the original Le Figaro article here: http://www.lefigaro.fr/france/20071012.FIG000000291_les_etranges_accusations_d_un_cybercorbeau.htmlHowever, I'm convinced that the new French course on Iran is mainly a result of Sarko's personal Jewish identification. As well as of other influential Jews around Sarko, like Pierre Lellouche. Thanks Peis. Its nice to see someone owning up to his mistakes. Its a refreshing experience here...  As for the second part of your post - I don't get it. So Sarkozy is implementing policy based on his ideology! Quick - call the police! He's not supposed to do that, is he?! And who cares if his ideology is based on his 'personal Jewish identification' or on a dream he had when he was a child? As I said - Sarkozy never hid his ideologies and his political adgenda, and he won the majority of French votes based on them. What you are doing is somehow implying that what he is doing is illegitimate. Thats wrong. Peis, while I disagree with a lot of your politics, you are not part of the neuron-absent joo conspiracy crowd that populates this forum. Yet whenever one of them posts one of these stupidities - you rush to their rescue. Trust me - it dosen't become you. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
kactus
Full Member
Karma: +6/-29
Posts: 238
|
|
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2007, 06:07:15 AM » |
|
Whilst you call the iranian site as a 'propaganda' it's only quoting Le Figaro. Does this mean that Le Figaro is also spreading around propaganda? No. The translated version of Le Figaro claims that the letter sent to the French police makes a link between Sarkozy and his alleged 'collaboration' with Mossad. There's strong indications to believe that Sarkozy has worked along with Mossad. I do agree however that when I first read the "PressTV" article I thought it claimed that Ostrovsky was speaking of Sarkozy. You were right!
As your first couple of posts here were directed to Peis I didn't see a point to reply but as the author of this post I think your rants in your last post only confirms some preconceptions. Frankly, I have had no engagement on any topics with you on this forum and I have no intention to unless you can argue without labelling and grouping "others like me" into certain category. I do not need support for my views from anybody but find it quite refreshing if others see the way I see it or have similar views. I know you have been here for a long time and whilst I disagree with a lot of your political views I am always open to hear a perspectives rather than a two dimensional angle of good versus evil. You are not the ony one with the monopoly on this forum!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Peisithanatos
|
|
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2007, 04:10:49 PM » |
|
who cares if his ideology is based on his 'personal Jewish identification' or on a dream he had when he was a child?
As I said - Sarkozy never hid his ideologies and his political adgenda, and he won the majority of French votes based on them. Thats wrong.
well, the difference between acting out of childhood dreams (that's a common, if unconscious, thing about humans) and acting out of identification with a foreign state is the the question of national loyalty. Acting out the frustrations of the youth can of course be more harmful to the country (Hitler comes to mind) than acting in the interest of a foreign state. It is for the people to judge their leaders. My claim is merely that Sarkozy's Jewish identity is the reason for the abrupt change of the traditional Gaullist foreign policy. What you are doing is somehow implying that what he is doing is illegitimate. it's legal, but whether legitimate...?... Consider that he means what he says and that France ends up joining American assault on Iran, against the will of the population, only because of Sarkozy's particular interest. The price of that will be paid by the French people, and it might be a big one, losses in the war and subsequent terror vengeance in French cities. All because of Sarkozy's sympathy for Israel. It's a question of how far he will push with his pro-Israel agenda, and how far France will allow him to push. whenever one of them posts one of these stupidities - you rush to their rescue. I don't think I said anything stupid on the Jewish topic (factually mistaken, yes). More than once i mentioned other groups, - Armenians, Greeks, Indians, - pushing their own agenda in the US. Ukrainians do same, especially in Canada where they have gained a degree of influence. I say what I see, - Jews like Perle, Wofowitz, Lieberman, Sarkozy, Podhoretz, - work for a pro-Israel line in Western capitals. There are Jews of other kind, like Chomsky and Finkelstein (or Gideon Levy in Israel), but these are writers, not political establishment. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
a big pile of bs covered with a thick layer of sugar
|
|
|
Fredledingue
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +30/-31
Posts: 868
|
|
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2007, 04:11:18 PM » |
|
Le Figaro?! Ho LA-LAaaa...
It's the least reliable source of information. It's the same paper which claimed that CIA agents met with Bin Laden 3 weeks before 9/11. Another rumor with sources coming from.. Le Figaro and that nobody else could confirm (except by Kactus on IAP 1.0). So today it's "Sarkozy is working for the Mossad".
Ho realy?
For someone who live near them, I can tell you that what the french feared the most about Sarko was NOT his jewish roots (we realy don't care about that down here) but rather his "fascist" stance and pro global corporate manners.
French were/are not worried of his ties with Bush. They are worried of what he will do with France domesticaly.
He was not elected because jews control the medias (if it was true the left would have won), but because poeple were fed up with the total laisser-faire with immigration and other issues.
It's time to stop saying that french are automaticaly against everything Sarkozy says or do and that only jews agree with him.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Dr. Zoidberg is jewish (and an important AIPAC donator!) |
|
|
|
Peisithanatos
|
|
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2007, 02:51:48 PM » |
|
what the french feared the most about Sarko was NOT his jewish roots true. He was elected on the "France for the French" feeling and earned the lion share of sympathies on the anti-riot (verbal) performance. But... the French certainly did not elect him to lead them into Pax Americana, and certainly not into war. The French were lucky Sarko was not the Pres in 2003. Otherwise, France would have gone through the fireworks of terror attacks and salutes of the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq. Given the size and radicalization of the Muslim community, French participation in Iraq would have surely led to explosions in big cities. And alongside with Madrid Bombings and London Bombings, there would be Paris Bombings, Marseilles Bombings, Bordeaux Bombings, Nantes Bombings, Toulouse Bombings, and who knows what else. Terror, panic, dead soldiers, dead civilians, Arab pogroms, inter-racial violence, cordonned neighborhoods. Was that absolutely necessary for the nation? Probably not. So Sarko's Jewish roots are irrelevant only insofar as they don't cost too much. Let's see if Sarko ends up like Aznar, - provokes terror attacks, lies about their causes, and gets re-elected in shame. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
a big pile of bs covered with a thick layer of sugar
|
|
|
Fredledingue
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +30/-31
Posts: 868
|
|
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2007, 03:44:52 PM » |
|
Relations between France and the US have been damaged unecessarily and too far from both sides after the Iraq war. Sarko has been fixing these relations. That doesn't mean he is going to
follow Bush in any war.
Iran will be bombed if we need too. This has nothing to do with the personalities or the presidents of the world powers. But we don't need to attack Iran now.
About muslims in France: I don't think that Islamist sentiment is worse in France than in Spain or Britain. Actualy Islamism is very low in France considering the number of poeple of muslim descent.
Riots in the suburbs have nothing to do with Islam.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Dr. Zoidberg is jewish (and an important AIPAC donator!) |
|
|
kactus
Full Member
Karma: +6/-29
Posts: 238
|
|
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2007, 04:15:38 PM » |
|
Sarko's appointment to the presidency completed the missing jigsaw in the puzzle. Sarkozy needs the US to do what it promised to do, help French economy. Furthermore, such an alliance with USrael will align their foreign policy.
French were very much against the Iraq invasion. Sarkozy is tasked to bring what the USraelis always wanted, a France 100% in their camp. This will give the USraelis a much, much more unified voice. As I have said here repeatedly this is not about him putting Israel ahead of France on all issues, whether it concerns health, education or employment. But I do believe that his loyalty stays with Israel atleast as far as his foreign policies are concerned. Look whether you like it or not the types of Sarkozy are plenty in the US all with one aim to serve Israel.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
