• Registered: 2010-01-16
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Topic: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

Based on current demographic research-the population accepting Islam will grow faster than any people professing any other belief. What percentage of Islamic countries are democratic? What percentage of Islamic countries promote gender and religious equality?  Immigrants who practice Islam are forming an ever increasing percentage of the population of all countries in the world. By the 21st Century citizens who practice Islam will control the majority of Governments in the world. What will become of our secular educational system? What will become of our freedom to write, read and say what we please? This will largely depend on the hoped for evolution that Islam will be obliged to undergo.

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  • Registered: 2009-11-30
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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

No, this is ignorant, propagandist fear-mongering BS. In fact, the fastest growing religion is Christianity. It's numbers are exploding in Africa at the expense of Islam. The irony is that this myth was created by Muslims and embraced by anti-Islam paranoids.

"From the statistics available we can cleary see that the fastest growing religion in the world in real terms is Christianity. Where Islam gains 23 Million new adherents annually, Christianity gained 30 Million new adherents in that same period. Thus, Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world.
In terms of the question of  gaining the most religions by conversions, again that title goes to Christianity. By converisons from other religions, Christianity tends to be the most effective by a long shot with over 2 Million conversions followed by the 800,000 conversions recorded by Islam in that period."

http://islamoscope.wordpress.com/2008/0 … -of-islam/

Hell is a place where there is no reason.

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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

cybert wrote:

No, this is ignorant, propagandist fear-mongering BS. In fact, the fastest growing religion is Christianity. It's numbers are exploding in Africa at the expense of Islam. The irony is that this myth was created by Muslims and embraced by anti-Islam paranoids.

"From the statistics available we can cleary see that the fastest growing religion in the world in real terms is Christianity. Where Islam gains 23 Million new adherents annually, Christianity gained 30 Million new adherents in that same period. Thus, Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world.
In terms of the question of  gaining the most religions by conversions, again that title goes to Christianity. By converisons from other religions, Christianity tends to be the most effective by a long shot with over 2 Million conversions followed by the 800,000 conversions recorded by Islam in that period."

http://islamoscope.wordpress.com/2008/0 … -of-islam/

The Qran authorizes execution of all converts. Christianity has no such prohibition. The Qran authorizes the execution of infidels. Christianity is based on love your neighbor. Islam will win because it has no qualms about killing anyone who does not want to become a Muslim. The last time Christianity was a violent religion was during the Spanish Inquisition. The Hindus and Buddhists also preach non violence. The only country that has no qualms about engaging violent Islam is israel. Once Christians, Hindus and Buddhists recognize that they are engaged in an existential fight just as Israel is we will all be lost to history.

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  • Registered: 2010-01-16
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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

cybert wrote:

No, this is ignorant, propagandist fear-mongering BS. In fact, the fastest growing religion is Christianity. It's numbers are exploding in Africa at the expense of Islam. The irony is that this myth was created by Muslims and embraced by anti-Islam paranoids.

"From the statistics available we can cleary see that the fastest growing religion in the world in real terms is Christianity. Where Islam gains 23 Million new adherents annually, Christianity gained 30 Million new adherents in that same period. Thus, Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world.
In terms of the question of  gaining the most religions by conversions, again that title goes to Christianity. By converisons from other religions, Christianity tends to be the most effective by a long shot with over 2 Million conversions followed by the 800,000 conversions recorded by Islam in that period."

http://islamoscope.wordpress.com/2008/0 … -of-islam/

You fail to discuss what is happening in Europe where new births are mostly from mothers who are adherents of Islam. In Europe, Muslim births are 3.5, Christian births are 1.2.

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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

jackattacks wrote:
cybert wrote:

No, this is ignorant, propagandist fear-mongering BS. In fact, the fastest growing religion is Christianity. It's numbers are exploding in Africa at the expense of Islam. The irony is that this myth was created by Muslims and embraced by anti-Islam paranoids.

"From the statistics available we can cleary see that the fastest growing religion in the world in real terms is Christianity. Where Islam gains 23 Million new adherents annually, Christianity gained 30 Million new adherents in that same period. Thus, Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world.
In terms of the question of  gaining the most religions by conversions, again that title goes to Christianity. By converisons from other religions, Christianity tends to be the most effective by a long shot with over 2 Million conversions followed by the 800,000 conversions recorded by Islam in that period."

http://islamoscope.wordpress.com/2008/0 … -of-islam/

The Qran authorizes execution of all converts. Christianity has no such prohibition. The Qran authorizes the execution of infidels. Christianity is based on love your neighbor. Islam will win because it has no qualms about killing anyone who does not want to become a Muslim. The last time Christianity was a violent religion was during the Spanish Inquisition. The Hindus and Buddhists also preach non violence. The only country that has no qualms about engaging violent Islam is israel. Once Christians, Hindus and Buddhists recognize that they are engaged in an existential fight just as Israel is we will all be lost to history.

Okay, whatever, you said Islam was the fastest growing religion, when it is not. Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world. It is growing both by birthrate AND conversion, unlike Islam, which is growing only by birthrate.

Then you offer some gibberish about what? Converting us by the sword? "Islam will win because it has no qualms about killing anyone who does not want to become a Muslim." Huh? What are they going to do, convert us by the IED? There have been a lot of bombs dropped in the last ten years and all of them have been OURS and OVER THERE.

jackattacks wrote:

You fail to discuss what is happening in Europe where new births are mostly from mothers who are adherents of Islam. In Europe, Muslim births are 3.5, Christian births are 1.2.

You fail to tell me why I should care. Do you know anything about demographics, culture or immigrant behavior? Most Europeans are not even religious and you think they will become Islamic? The EU is half-a-billion people. The Muslim population is 16 million. Muslims are about 3%. Now we have to assume that the birth rate won't change for a hundred years. But not only that, we have to assume they will be embraced in Europe, where they are not. And we have to assume  that they won't behave like other immigrants, having fewer children as they assimilate. Ah, but all these assumptions are really really dumb.

I understand, you need something to hate and get all upset about so you can feel like a voice crying out heroically against the storm. This makes these cherished lies important to you, but they remain lies.

Stop bothering the intelligent people with our personality problems.

Hell is a place where there is no reason.

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  • Registered: 2010-01-16
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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

cybert wrote:
jackattacks wrote:
cybert wrote:

No, this is ignorant, propagandist fear-mongering BS. In fact, the fastest growing religion is Christianity. It's numbers are exploding in Africa at the expense of Islam. The irony is that this myth was created by Muslims and embraced by anti-Islam paranoids.

"From the statistics available we can cleary see that the fastest growing religion in the world in real terms is Christianity. Where Islam gains 23 Million new adherents annually, Christianity gained 30 Million new adherents in that same period. Thus, Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world.
In terms of the question of  gaining the most religions by conversions, again that title goes to Christianity. By converisons from other religions, Christianity tends to be the most effective by a long shot with over 2 Million conversions followed by the 800,000 conversions recorded by Islam in that period."

http://islamoscope.wordpress.com/2008/0 … -of-islam/

The Qran authorizes execution of all converts. Christianity has no such prohibition. The Qran authorizes the execution of infidels. Christianity is based on love your neighbor. Islam will win because it has no qualms about killing anyone who does not want to become a Muslim. The last time Christianity was a violent religion was during the Spanish Inquisition. The Hindus and Buddhists also preach non violence. The only country that has no qualms about engaging violent Islam is israel. Once Christians, Hindus and Buddhists recognize that they are engaged in an existential fight just as Israel is we will all be lost to history.

Okay, whatever, you said Islam was the fastest growing religion, when it is not. Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world. It is growing both by birthrate AND conversion, unlike Islam, which is growing only by birthrate.

Then you offer some gibberish about what? Converting us by the sword? "Islam will win because it has no qualms about killing anyone who does not want to become a Muslim." Huh? What are they going to do, convert us by the IED? There have been a lot of bombs dropped in the last ten years and all of them have been OURS and OVER THERE.

jackattacks wrote:

You fail to discuss what is happening in Europe where new births are mostly from mothers who are adherents of Islam. In Europe, Muslim births are 3.5, Christian births are 1.2.

You fail to tell me why I should care. Do you know anything about demographics, culture or immigrant behavior? Most Europeans are not even religious and you think they will become Islamic? The EU is half-a-billion people. The Muslim population is 16 million. Muslims are about 3%. Now we have to assume that the birth rate won't change for a hundred years. But not only that, we have to assume they will be embraced in Europe, where they are not. And we have to assume  that they won't behave like other immigrants, having fewer children as they assimilate. Ah, but all these assumptions are really really dumb.

I understand, you need something to hate and get all upset about so you can feel like a voice crying out heroically against the storm. This makes these cherished lies important to you, but they remain lies.

Stop bothering the intelligent people with our personality problems.

Being rude as you are, stems from anger. It has been proven that anger lowers the sufferer's I.Q. I have no choice but to forgive your ignorance for you have unknowingly damaged whatever remains of your pitiful brain. There is also a high rate of first cousin marriages amongst Muslims. Geneticists have something to say about what that does to their children's brains. You are not by any chance the product of the commingling of first cousins?

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  • Registered: 2009-11-30
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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

jackattacks wrote:

Being rude as you are, stems from anger. It has been proven that anger lowers the sufferer's I.Q. I have no choice but to forgive your ignorance for you have unknowingly damaged whatever remains of your pitiful brain. There is also a high rate of first cousin marriages amongst Muslims. Geneticists have something to say about what that does to their children's brains. You are not by any chance the product of the commingling of first cousins?

Rude, maybe, but I have low tolerance for ignorance, especially from those who claim to be enemies, but are actually allies in the same stupid lie. Clearly you can't argue the point so you end on a personal attack and nothing else. No problem. I hate religious fanatic Muslims as much as fanatic liar Westerners who want to make war on a billion people for the acts of a handful of idiots. Both of you are liars and deserve each other. Can you leave us reasonable, normal people out of it so we can get on with our lives? We'd just like to earn a wage and feed our families. Now get the hell out of our way.

Hell is a place where there is no reason.

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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

cybert wrote:
jackattacks wrote:

Being rude as you are, stems from anger. It has been proven that anger lowers the sufferer's I.Q. I have no choice but to forgive your ignorance for you have unknowingly damaged whatever remains of your pitiful brain. There is also a high rate of first cousin marriages amongst Muslims. Geneticists have something to say about what that does to their children's brains. You are not by any chance the product of the commingling of first cousins?

Rude, maybe, but I have low tolerance for ignorance, especially from those who claim to be enemies, but are actually allies in the same stupid lie. Clearly you can't argue the point so you end on a personal attack and nothing else. No problem. I hate religious fanatic Muslims as much as fanatic liar Westerners who want to make war on a billion people for the acts of a handful of idiots. Both of you are liars and deserve each other. Can you leave us reasonable, normal people out of it so we can get on with our lives? We'd just like to earn a wage and feed our families. Now get the hell out of our way.

Vituperative language does nothing for your intelligence. Philosophers will tell you that the only argument you have made is an argumentum ad hominum. It does not advance the discussion one iota.

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  • Registered: 2009-11-09
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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

Vituperative language does nothing for your intelligence.

Yeah yeah yeah. Avoiding Cyberts relevant and compelling counter points isn't fooling anyone and does nothing for your intelligence either.

I support the right to arm bears.

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  • Registered: 2010-01-16
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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

The statistic that I rely on are published by the U.N. They can be check and verified. I am not engaging in anything other than relying on published data that I have checked. No body who has responded to my posts has relied on anything other than themselves. I feel my post are authoritative. I do not know where that leaves the rest of you.

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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

jackattacks wrote:

The statistic that I rely on are published by the U.N. They can be check and verified. I am not engaging in anything other than relying on published data that I have checked. No body who has responded to my posts has relied on anything other than themselves. I feel my post are authoritative. I do not know where that leaves the rest of you.

If they can be quickly verified, why did you not post a link?  Your OP sure looks like purely speculative personal opinion, entirely bereft of proof.

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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

I wish to thank everyone who has responded to my posts. I am indeed incorrect. The sites I visited were run by right wing fanatics and not by the U.N. as I have now discovered. Here is a more honest site that proves that my posts have been based largely on biased thinking. I am truly humbled by how easily fooled I was.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion … aphics.asp

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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

Jack, as you have now realized, claims of Islamic dominance are over-exaggerated. However let me ask you this: of the world's Muslim population, what proportion are Islamic adherents and how many followers of Islam are dangerous radicals and zealots? I would suggest that most Muslims are moderates that reject extremist religious values.

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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

Jacks

I just want to kick up some Karma for a guy who can look again and say, you know guys, maybe I'm wrong. Don't know if it is a first around here, but hats-off to ya. No bad in getting fooled, just in sticking to foolishness when the facts are in. We could all learn from that. Cheers!

Hell is a place where there is no reason.

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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

gommi wrote:

Jack, as you have now realized, claims of Islamic dominance are over-exaggerated. However let me ask you this: of the world's Muslim population, what proportion are Islamic adherents and how many followers of Islam are dangerous radicals and zealots? I would suggest that most Muslims are moderates that reject extremist religious values.

You are 100% correct. I recall that many years ago I befriended a Muslim man from Ramallah. He actually took me on a tour of the
Arab part of East Jerusalem. He was a moderate Muslim and believed fervently in the unity of all of mankind. As a volunteer teacher I teach reading and writing English to immigrants mostly from Africa. Most of the students are of the Muslim faith and they are a warm and all inclusive people. Unfortunately they have informed me that they will never go to Mecca because they know that Arab Muslims will discriminate against them. Racial tolerance amongst Muslim believers is at the same point as Christian tolerance was in the 16th century. The Muslim faith is only 1400 years old. As Christians finally did, Muslims will also discover the moral imperative and inherent value in being tolerant. My original post was made in anger over a news item I read. I deeply regret how my emotions overcame my usual clarity of thought.

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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

jackattacks wrote:
gommi wrote:

.... I would suggest that most Muslims are moderates that reject extremist religious values.

... He was a moderate Muslim and believed fervently in the unity of all of mankind. As a volunteer teacher I teach reading and writing English to immigrants mostly from Africa. Most of the students are of the Muslim faith and they are a warm and all inclusive people. Unfortunately they have informed me that they will never go to Mecca because they know that Arab Muslims will discriminate against them. Racial tolerance amongst Muslim believers is at the same point as Christian tolerance was in the 16th century. The Muslim faith is only 1400 years old. As Christians finally did, Muslims will also discover the moral imperative and inherent value in being tolerant. ....

While every religion has it's "radicals"... AND while "most Muslims" might be "moderates that reject extremist religious values"... unfortunately the "most" is not as large a percentage as many would like to believe, and the "Muslim extremists" are not as small of a percentage as many would like to believe.

We can find "extremists" within every religious, political, and "topical issue", and generally when we refer to "extremists" we're referring to VERY small percentages of a given population... Unfortunately what most would consider to be "Muslim extremists" are a far larger percentage of the Muslim population clearly represented by the actions and wills of those populations... Among the many examples are the election of Hamas (a terrorist organization) within the "Palestinian Territories", the inclusion of Hezbollah in the Lebanese Government (and the Lebanese government's refusal to disarm them), and the recent election Ahmadinejad in Iran (it should be noted, while the Ahmadinejad election may likely have been "rigged", even if the actual vote may have given him less than 50%, those who voted for him were certainly a significant percentage of the population)...

While the "excuses" from the region for the above are "many", the reality is that the "peaceful", more "tolerant" Muslims are allowing those with a more radical ideology to hijack their religion and thus, represent the people of that religion and those religion's values to the rest of the world.  Until more moderate, tolerant Muslims are able and willing to conceptually take their religion back, the "radicals" will likely continue to grow among them.  YES, "most" are more moderate, BUT most only means more than 50%.. The actual percentages are subjective, but clearly the "radicals" are not a minute or insignificant number.

Last edited by realityman (2010-01-27 15:38:40)

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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

realityman wrote:

Unfortunately what most would consider to be "Muslim extremists" are a far larger percentage of the Muslim population clearly represented by the actions and wills of those populations... Among the many examples are the election of Hamas (a terrorist organization) within the "Palestinian Territories."

Well, hate to say this because I hate both dogs in this fight, but that's what happens when you get the chance to vote for a group that will actually fight for you. All politics being local, their fight is with Israel, which has a direct and nasty effect on their daily lives.

realityman wrote:

the inclusion of Hezbollah in the Lebanese Government (and the Lebanese government's refusal to disarm them),

Well, 1) Alll politics being local, what was Lebanon supposed to do, go to war against them and head back to civil war? To what gain? Better to try to bring them into the system and have some control, than leave them out. Worked in Northern Ireland. 2) Refuse to disarm them? Don't think they can. Most Lebanese would be happy without their bullshit, but they don't have the ability to disarm them.

realityman wrote:

the recent election Ahmadinejad in Iran (it should be noted, while the Ahmadinejad election may likely have been "rigged", even if the actual vote may have given him less than 50%, those who voted for him were certainly a significant percentage of the population)...

Yes, Iran was liberalizing until we decided to have an invasion on their border. Now the Hardliners could say with credibility, "See, the Americans will invade any country at will. Just like we told you. We don't need these democracy wimps, we need a fighter like Amadenejad." He began his rise to power in 2003 after the Invasion of Iraq, which played right into extremist hands. All politics being equal, Iran's worst enemy Iraq was being invaded by their second worst enemy, the US. If you were Iranian, you'd go for the extreme yourself, because you are an extremist, an American extremist.

realityman wrote:

While the "excuses" from the region for the above are "many", the reality is that the "peaceful", more "tolerant" Muslims are allowing those with a more radical ideology to hijack their religion and thus, represent the people of that religion and those religion's values to the rest of the world.  Until more moderate, tolerant Muslims are able and willing to conceptually take their religion back, the "radicals" will likely continue to grow among them.  YES, "most" are more moderate, BUT most only means more than 50%.. The actual percentages are subjective, but clearly the "radicals" are not a minute or insignificant number.

If we would leave them the hell alone, they would turn on each other and work their crap out, but our extremists, people like you who cover themselves with excuses from a position of power keep threatening them, which leads their extremists to be able to say, "see how they act?" You shake a sword a country for what their idiots do and you bet all of them will come out against you. People like you are the problem, always looking for a fight. You want a fight, the fighters will show up, you chill and they will chill. In the Middle East, it's people just like you who support Hamas, Hizbollah and Amadenjad.

I hate all of you. "Realityman"? Try Idiotboy. I wish guys like you would drop dead. Then the rest of us could get on with life.

Hell is a place where there is no reason.

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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

cybert wrote:

.... that's what happens when you get the chance to vote for a group that will actually fight for you...

Equals= EXCUSE, but who would have guessed...

Were my previous words not... ""Muslim extremists" are a far larger percentage of the Muslim population clearly represented by the actions and wills of those populations"...

So here you are cybert excusing the FACT that the Palestinians elected a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION to lead them  wink

cybert wrote:

...1) All politics being local, what was Lebanon supposed to do, go to war against them and head back to civil war?...

In other words... "it's not their fault" (imagine that)... bringing us back to my point that "Unfortunately what most would consider to be "Muslim extremists" are a far larger percentage of the Muslim population clearly represented by the actions and wills of those populations..

cybert wrote:

2) ...Refuse to disarm them? Don't think they can...

While that may be true, it's another excuse exposing the prevalence of radical Muslims among Muslims... Lebanon agreed to a ceasefire agreeing to do just that...If they wouldn't or COULDN'T  do it themselves, DID THEY ASK FOR ASSISTANCE?  Of course not... So let's hear more excuses for that fact now, shall we.

cybert wrote:

...We don't need these democracy wimps, we need a fighter like Amadenejad."...

And who would have guessed, ANOTHER EXCUSE, for Iran this time...just re-affirming my point that ""Muslim extremists" are a far larger percentage of the Muslim population clearly represented by the actions and wills of those populations."

Thank you for helping to make a point so concisely cybert... AS I STATED: While the "excuses" from the region for the above are "many", the reality is that the "peaceful", more "tolerant" Muslims are allowing those with a more radical ideology to hijack their religion and thus, represent the people of that religion and those religion's values to the rest of the world.  Until more moderate, tolerant Muslims are able and willing to conceptually take their religion back, the "radicals" will likely continue to grow among them.  YES, "most" are more moderate, BUT most only means more than 50%.. The actual percentages are subjective, but clearly the "radicals" are not a minute or insignificant number.

cybert wrote:

People like you are the problem, always looking for a fight. You want a fight, the fighters will show up, you chill and they will chill.  In the Middle East, it's people just like you who support Hamas, Hizbollah and Amadenjad...

Oh please "cybert"... Do tell us more about the peaceful radical Muslims and how it's all the fault of "people like me" and the West (presumably)... lol

cybert wrote:

I hate all of you. "Realityman"? Try Idiotboy...

LMAO... And here again we have a classic example of how one responds when they can't logically or rationally defend their positions against the basic facts.

cybert wrote:

I wish guys like you would drop dead. Then the rest of us could get on with life

LMAO... and now it's ME, and guys like me keeping "cybert" (and whoever he's including in "the rest of us") from getting on with his life.... YET ANOTHER CLEAR EXAMPLE of the ideologies at play, and the "rationality" (or lack there of) of those who would EXCUSE, and make excuses for radical Muslim agendas...

Do tell us more "cybert"...

Last edited by realityman (2010-01-31 09:20:12)

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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

realityman wrote:
cybert wrote:

.... that's what happens when you get the chance to vote for a group that will actually fight for you...

Equals= EXCUSE, but who would have guessed...

Were my previous words not... ""Muslim extremists" are a far larger percentage of the Muslim population clearly represented by the actions and wills of those populations"...

So here you are cybert excusing the FACT that the Palestinians elected a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION to lead them  wink

You call it excusing, i call it telling it like it is. People in extreme shit elect those who will promise to fight for them by whatever means necessary. Iraelis do it, so do Americans, with their extremist toture-boy Bush.

realityman wrote:
cybert wrote:

...1) All politics being local, what was Lebanon supposed to do, go to war against them and head back to civil war?...

In other words... "it's not their fault" (imagine that)... bringing us back to my point that "Unfortunately what most would consider to be "Muslim extremists" are a far larger percentage of the Muslim population clearly represented by the actions and wills of those populations..

Well, in the case of Lebanon, you do know that Hezbollah is a part of a coalition government and by definition NOT representing a majority, right. Oh, pesky details. A majority here did vote for extremists Bush and Cheney. Shall we count the Isreali extremist governments?

realityman wrote:
cybert wrote:

2) ...Refuse to disarm them? Don't think they can...

While that may be true, it's another excuse exposing the prevalence of radical Muslims among Muslims... Lebanon agreed to a ceasefire agreeing to do just that...If they wouldn't or COULDN'T  do it themselves, DID THEY ASK FOR ASSISTANCE?  Of course not... So let's hear more excuses for that fact now, shall we.

Realityman hates reality, calls it excuses. Did they ask for help. Help from Israel? The invaders. What country can be expected to ask help from invaders? Would we? It remains, it is a problem they have to live with. If we would just leave them alone, Hezbollah will eventually undermine itself.

realityman wrote:
cybert wrote:

...We don't need these democracy wimps, we need a fighter like Amadenejad."...

And who would have guessed, ANOTHER EXCUSE, for Iran this time...just re-affirming my point that ""Muslim extremists" are a far larger percentage of the Muslim population clearly represented by the actions and wills of those populations."

Once again, reality denied as an excuse. When we left them alone, things were improving, but extremists like you ran things and screwed them up. Did you notice how when Bush was out and the war in Iraq winding down, suddenly Amadenajad was finally seriously challenged?

realityman wrote:

Thank you for helping to make a point so concisely cybert... AS I STATED: While the "excuses" from the region for the above are "many", the reality is that the "peaceful", more "tolerant" Muslims are allowing those with a more radical ideology to hijack their religion and thus, represent the people of that religion and those religion's values to the rest of the world.  Until more moderate, tolerant Muslims are able and willing to conceptually take their religion back, the "radicals" will likely continue to grow among them.  YES, "most" are more moderate, BUT most only means more than 50%.. The actual percentages are subjective, but clearly the "radicals" are not a minute or insignificant number.

For years moderates have been saying, Please America, STOP HELPING US. Every time our extremists interfere, we help their extremists. That's reality, stop helping them. 

realityman wrote:
cybert wrote:

People like you are the problem, always looking for a fight. You want a fight, the fighters will show up, you chill and they will chill.  In the Middle East, it's people just like you who support Hamas, Hizbollah and Amadenjad...

Oh please "cybert"... Do tell us more about the peaceful radical Muslims and how it's all the fault of "people like me" and the West (presumably)... lol

Your snotty bluster is irrelevant. You and your ilk are not peaceful, you are radicals who think guns and bombs can solve everything. Terrorists feed off fear of foreign interference. That's reality. Deal with it, extremist.

realityman wrote:
cybert wrote:

I hate all of you. "Realityman"? Try Idiotboy...

LMAO... And here again we have a classic example of how one responds when they can't logically or rationally defend their positions against the basic facts.

You have demonstrated no concept of reality or logic at all. I say firmly, I hate extremists. The only difference between you and Muslim terrorists is, you sit on your ass and expect our military to execute your radicalism, while they pick up guns and bombs and do it themselves. You both suck.

realityman wrote:
cybert wrote:

I wish guys like you would drop dead. Then the rest of us could get on with life

LMAO... and now it's ME, and guys like me keeping "cybert" (and whoever he's including in "the rest of us") from getting on with his life.... YET ANOTHER CLEAR EXAMPLE of the ideologies at play, and the "rationality" (or lack there of) of those who would EXCUSE, and make excuses for radical Muslim agendas...

Do tell us more "cybert"...

I need say no more, your irrational extremism speaks for itself.

Hell is a place where there is no reason.

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  • Registered: 2010-01-16
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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

Hatred lower the hater's I.Q. Understanding and not judging elevates it. Extremism in all matters is bad for intelligence. We all should strive to understand rather than judge our opponent's point of view. In this way we avoid being labeled as extremist.

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  • Registered: 2009-11-30
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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

jackattacks wrote:

Hatred lower the hater's I.Q. Understanding and not judging elevates it. Extremism in all matters is bad for intelligence. We all should strive to understand rather than judge our opponent's point of view. In this way we avoid being labeled as extremist.

I hate the haters. Have it as you will.

Hell is a place where there is no reason.

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  • Registered: 2009-11-05
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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

realityman wrote:

the reality is that the "peaceful", more "tolerant" Muslims are allowing those with a more radical ideology to hijack their religion

Perhaps it is true that radical Muslims are overrepresented in Middle Eastern politics and public affairs. It is also possible however that their influence is over-exaggerated, because their aggressive and powerful rhetoric causes them to be more visible than moderates.

cybert wrote:

If we would leave them the hell alone, they would turn on each other and work their crap out, but our extremists, people like you who cover themselves with excuses from a position of power keep threatening them, which leads their extremists to be able to say, "see how they act?"

Surely it is not only foreign or "imperialist" forces that inspire extremism. Many radical or nationalist movements in the Middle East are the product of domestic issues and divisions. Hezbollah, for example, was created partly in response to corruption in the Lebanese government, as well as a general sense of Shiite frustration and exclusion.

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  • Registered: 2009-11-30
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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

gommi wrote:
realityman wrote:

the reality is that the "peaceful", more "tolerant" Muslims are allowing those with a more radical ideology to hijack their religion

Perhaps it is true that radical Muslims are overrepresented in Middle Eastern politics and public affairs. It is also possible however that their influence is over-exaggerated, because their aggressive and powerful rhetoric causes them to be more visible than moderates.

cybert wrote:

If we would leave them the hell alone, they would turn on each other and work their crap out, but our extremists, people like you who cover themselves with excuses from a position of power keep threatening them, which leads their extremists to be able to say, "see how they act?"

Surely it is not only foreign or "imperialist" forces that inspire extremism. Many radical or nationalist movements in the Middle East are the product of domestic issues and divisions. Hezbollah, for example, was created partly in response to corruption in the Lebanese government, as well as a general sense of Shiite frustration and exclusion.

Nobody said "imperialist" or "forces". If you read my earlier posts, you would see I originally explained things exactly as "all politics being local." If we would quit interfering, they would work their problems out themselves.

A good example is Iran:The wingnuts went stomping around the room, criticizing Obama for being so low key when the Green Movement against Amedinejad began, but he was being very smart. Our extremists were too ignorant and partisan to understand that American support is the kiss of death for moderation in Iran. Amedinejad had only one argument against them and repeatedly accused and arrested them on the basis of "foreign influence." Which explains this:

Prominent Green Movement politicians and intellectuals have emphasized that the sovereignty and independence of both the Green Movement and Iran is an absolute priority. One prominent politician with ties to both Mir Hossein Moussavi and former president Hashemi Rafsanjani, namely Ataollah Mohajerani, has stated in an interview (Farsi language) with newspaper RaheSabz that, if pressured or attacked, the nation would temporarily set aside the domestic crisis to fight against any invaders. Moussavi has taken pains to distance himself from Western governments or ideals as well, saying in his latest address: “We are neither affiliated with Americans nor British. We have neither sent greeting cards for the leaders of any powerful countries nor are hoping for their assistance.”

LEAVE THEM ALONE and let them work it out. Our extremists can't stand that idea.

Hell is a place where there is no reason.

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  • Registered: 2010-01-16
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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

gommi wrote:
realityman wrote:

the reality is that the "peaceful", more "tolerant" Muslims are allowing those with a more radical ideology to hijack their religion

Perhaps it is true that radical Muslims are overrepresented in Middle Eastern politics and public affairs. It is also possible however that their influence is over-exaggerated, because their aggressive and powerful rhetoric causes them to be more visible than moderates.

cybert wrote:

If we would leave them the hell alone, they would turn on each other and work their crap out, but our extremists, people like you who cover themselves with excuses from a position of power keep threatening them, which leads their extremists to be able to say, "see how they act?"

Surely it is not only foreign or "imperialist" forces that inspire extremism. Many radical or nationalist movements in the Middle East are the product of domestic issues and divisions. Hezbollah, for example, was created partly in response to corruption in the Lebanese government, as well as a general sense of Shiite frustration and exclusion.

You are correct. As school children we can recall the presence of at least one bully from memory. He held sway over the rest of us. He got his self esteem by lowering it in others. Adult bullies are very much the same. In a democracy their influence is minimized. In a sectarian state they will dominate and cause us to call the entire state a terrorist one. If they could stop hating they would become very dangerous. As I have posted before, hatred lowers the hater's I.Q.

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Re: Islam-the sole monotheistic faith and government-21st Century?

I was going to weigh into this thread, but I noticed it got quite nasty about halfway down, so I stopped reading.

"Anarchy stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the dominion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraints of government." - Emma Goldman

"Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state." - Noam Chomsky

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