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Topic: Do Away With the Fillibuster

The filibuster has a long and undistinguished history of preventing the people who won an election from governing. "Filibusters were particularly useful to Southern senators who sought to block civil rights legislation, including anti-lynching legislation, until cloture was invoked after a 57 day filibuster against the Civil Right Act of 1964."

Lately it's been used to an unprecidented extent, as the loser party has decided that stopping the majority party from governing is just fine with them, the country be damned.

Here's what the very, very, centrist/milquetoast USA Today opines:

The filibuster is a Faustian bargain that undermines the will of voters. The promise of change that swept Barack Obama into the presidency and padded Democratic majorities in the House and Senate last year has been largely derailed by the Senate's Republican minority, which has kept a broad array of legislation from coming to a vote.

More than outrageous, this legislative tyranny holds hostage our democracy to the whims of a political party that was on the losing end of an election cycle. The voters who gave Democrats control of Congress and the White House in the recent elections expect results, not inaction. They expect Congress to bring bills to a vote, not allow a mean-spirited minority to filibuster them to death.

If Democrats won't use the majority voters gave them to end this bad practice, then they deserve to suffer their wrath in November's elections.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2010/02/ … t-gop.html

I agree.

Last edited by jpn of Seattle (2010-02-16 20:48:52)

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Re: Do Away With the Fillibuster

If Democrats won't use the majority voters gave them to end this bad practice, then they deserve to suffer their wrath in November's elections, because it'll be patently obvious they are just worried about it biting them in the ass at some future time when they want to employ it.


FIFY


http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/time/631-1.jpg

Last edited by allpoints (2010-02-16 22:25:57)

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Re: Do Away With the Fillibuster

As I understand it, it would take 67 votes to change the rules of the Senate in mid-stream. The Dems would have to wait until a new session of Congress, next January, to pass new rules that barred the filibuster with just a majority vote.

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Re: Do Away With the Fillibuster

The arguement the columnist is making is spurious.  He claims that the minority party has used the philibuster to block a number of bills but until the last week the Dems had a philibuster proof majority. If there was a successfully blocked bill using the philibuster it is becuase some Dems sides with the "opposition".

It claims that the minority party is acting aainst the majority and the country be damned but the country has spoken with a loud voice and said they do NOT want the monster of a healthcare bill that the democratic party was trying to ram down our troats while we are distracted by the holiday festivities.

The article IS right in that the power granted to the democrats was givin for a reason, a set of tasks, tasks on whish they failed to amke any meaningful headway. I for one can't wait to see what happens in the mid terms and afterwards. I personally am hoping to see some true conservatives or better still some Libertarians elected. Maybe even with a new party tag. I'm doubtful but hopeful.

As for the phlibuster, I agree, do away with it. But bring BACK unlimited debate. If someone or ones want to block something force them to stay till all hours of the night, weekend, holiday. Make them work for it. This will either benefit the party blocking the measure if it truely unpopular with thier contituents or hurt them if it is a popular bill being blocked for ideology. With todays mass media avialibity and the internet, the counterproductive use of this would quickly become obvious.

Last edited by Opmod (2010-02-23 18:31:13)

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Re: Do Away With the Fillibuster

Opmod wrote:

It claims that the minority party is acting aainst the majority and the country be damned but the country has spoken with a loud voice and said they do NOT want the monster of a healthcare bill that the democratic party was trying to ram down our troats while we are distracted by the holiday festivities.

Really? That's what the people said? Because if you are talking about Brown's election, we are only talking about what the people of Mass. said. Second, on healthcare, said folks overwhelmingly support Obama. Third, of those who voted for Brown on the issue of the current health bill, namely those against it, most did so because the bill didn't go far enough, that is, didn't have a public option. By the way, the people of Mass enjoy a comprehensive state plan rather like the one before Congress and overwhelmingly support it.

Hell is a place where there is no reason.

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Re: Do Away With the Fillibuster

NO I am NOT refering to Brown or Mass in particular, I am refering to the over all popularity of the health care reform effort.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ … are_reform

Voters still strongly oppose the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats and think Congress should focus instead on smaller bills that address problems individually rather than a comprehensive plan.

Be it becuase the plan has been poorly explained,,,which it has, or if it was the "backdoor" politics over the holiday that it took to get the bill through the Senate or if it is becuase just 1 in 5 voters feel like the bill would benefit them personally while they are sure it will cost them more money and taxes....whatever the cuase, the people do NOT want the healthcare bill atleast in its current form.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/10/ … index.html
(Link for the 1 in 5 part)

There is nothing wrong with the world. Its the people. Get rid of them and it would be an alright place.

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Re: Do Away With the Fillibuster

Opmod wrote:

NO I am NOT refering to Brown or Mass in particular, I am refering to the over all popularity of the health care reform effort.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ … are_reform

Voters still strongly oppose the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats and think Congress should focus instead on smaller bills that address problems individually rather than a comprehensive plan.

Be it becuase the plan has been poorly explained,,,which it has, or if it was the "backdoor" politics over the holiday that it took to get the bill through the Senate or if it is becuase just 1 in 5 voters feel like the bill would benefit them personally while they are sure it will cost them more money and taxes....whatever the cuase, the people do NOT want the healthcare bill atleast in its current form.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/10/ … index.html
(Link for the 1 in 5 part)

Thanks for clarifying. You are right, polls say folks don't approve, but not yet necessarily that they've spoken, as this chart shows:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/kcrowlqj3ukbaliyxdi_aq.gif

Clearly, the situation is in constant flux, certainly not the "set in stone" implied by the idea that the Dems are working against the people...

"Americans appear hungry for an end to partisan infighting in Washington, so much so that half of respondents said the Senate should change the filibuster rules that Republicans have used to block Mr. Obama’s agenda. Almost 60 percent said both Mr. Obama and Congressional Republicans should compromise in the interest of consensus.

But Mr. Obama is seen as making more of an effort to do that: 62 percent said Mr. Obama was trying to work with Congressional Republicans, while the same percentage said that Republicans were not trying to work with Mr. Obama."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/12/us/po … 2poll.html

One thing working for the Dems is the recent rate rises by the private insurance industry.

Last edited by cybert (2010-02-24 18:19:42)

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Re: Do Away With the Fillibuster

cybert wrote:

"Americans appear hungry for an end to partisan infighting in Washington, so much so that half of respondents said the Senate should change the filibuster rules that Republicans have used to block Mr. Obama’s agenda. Almost 60 percent said both Mr. Obama and Congressional Republicans should compromise in the interest of consensus.

But Mr. Obama is seen as making more of an effort to do that: 62 percent said Mr. Obama was trying to work with Congressional Republicans, while the same percentage said that Republicans were not trying to work with Mr. Obama."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/12/us/po … 2poll.html

One thing working for the Dems is the recent rate rises by the private insurance industry.

Thats just it though,,,the Repuiblicans have not been ABLE to philibuster anything until Brown took office. They have not, to my knowledge, used it even now, though admitedly I do not watch senatorial procedings regualarly so I could be wrong about that,  so where have the republicans blocked Obama's agenda? AS I said earlier if they DID block something pre-Brown, then it was becuase atleast 1 democrat or the one independant grouped with the republicans.

Again I will say it, I hope and pray that people THINK about wo they are voting for coming up in the midterms, I would dearly LOVE to see some libertarians or even Tea Baggers get in office.

There is nothing wrong with the world. Its the people. Get rid of them and it would be an alright place.

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Re: Do Away With the Fillibuster

Opmod wrote:

Thats just it though,,,the Repuiblicans have not been ABLE to philibuster anything until Brown took office.

You kidding? They set an all time record for the most filibusters in history. Since the 70s, just the threat has been enough.

http://www.ebogjonson.com/mt-static/images/FILIBUSTERS.small.prod_affiliate.91.jpg

Opmod wrote:

so where have the republicans blocked Obama's agenda? AS I said earlier if they DID block something pre-Brown,

It is easier to count the places where they tried and failed.

Opmod wrote:

then it was becuase atleast 1 democrat or the one independant grouped with the republicans.

So what? So they lose by having only a majority of 59 votes? That makes sense to you?

"It's also worth noting that of the Senate's 41 Republicans, 20 of them come from the nation's 20 least populous states. So when they say they know what America wants, as several did Thursday, they may be operating on partial evidence."

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/02/26 … -for-fina/

Opmod wrote:

Again I will say it, I hope and pray that people THINK about wo they are voting for coming up in the midterms, I would dearly LOVE to see some libertarians or even Tea Baggers get in office.

Libertarianism is delusional utopianism and the Teabaggers are rightwing radicals among right wing radicals. You can have them, thanks.

Every single Congressman opposing the current health bill is a hypocrite and a liar. They know damn well that every member of Congress gets EXACTLY what is in the health bill just for being in Congress, it is based on THEIR OWN SYSTEM. These lying elitist scum want to keep the special privilege of their system while denying it to others.

Senator Blocks Extension of Unemployment Benefits for 1.1 Million Workers

One Senator, one retiring senator hijacking unemployment benefits to grandstand? Is that the will of the people?

http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/insur … /19375384/

And what about Republican Richard Shelby hijacking the Obama's nominees until he gets his pork for the state of Alabama?

Is that the will of the people?

Last edited by cybert (2010-02-26 13:15:36)

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Re: Do Away With the Fillibuster

Calm yourself Cybert. As I siad earlier, I agree, do away with the 60 vote needed.

As for your post, the THREAT of the a phlibuster has been enough to stop bills? Sounds to me like the Dems need to cowboy up and FORCE the republicans to block such actions. In todays age of availablity of information, such obstuctionist actions would quickly have political repurcusions unless f course it was blokcing something that his/her constituants really did not want and then it would be a benefit and an example of the senator doing his/her job.

Everytime a bill gets blocked by the Republicans Reid should have a conference explaining what was being voted on adn that they tried but it was blocked. Simple.

Last edited by Opmod (2010-02-27 10:18:54)

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Re: Do Away With the Fillibuster

Opmod wrote:

Calm yourself Cybert. As I siad earlier, I agree, do away with the 60 vote needed.

As for your post, the THREAT of the a phlibuster has been enough to stop bills? Sounds to me like the Dems need to cowboy up and FORCE the republicans to block such actions. In todays age of availablity of information, such obstuctionist actions would quickly have political repurcusions unless f course it was blokcing something that his/her constituants really did not want and then it would be a benefit and an example of the senator doing his/her job.

Everytime a bill gets blocked by the Republicans Reid should have a conference explaining what was being voted on adn that they tried but it was blocked. Simple.

Yes, the threat. If you look into it, you'll see why. I actually hurts the majority party worse. 50 senators of the majority must remain in chambers at all times in case the minority calls a quorum, while only 30 of the minority do. With round the clock schedules, taking three days and nights off every single time a single piece of legislation comes by is just not possible. And that is why it isn't done any more.

Hell is a place where there is no reason.

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Re: Do Away With the Fillibuster

cybert wrote:
Opmod wrote:

Calm yourself Cybert. As I siad earlier, I agree, do away with the 60 vote needed.

As for your post, the THREAT of the a phlibuster has been enough to stop bills? Sounds to me like the Dems need to cowboy up and FORCE the republicans to block such actions. In todays age of availablity of information, such obstuctionist actions would quickly have political repurcusions unless f course it was blokcing something that his/her constituants really did not want and then it would be a benefit and an example of the senator doing his/her job.

Everytime a bill gets blocked by the Republicans Reid should have a conference explaining what was being voted on adn that they tried but it was blocked. Simple.

Yes, the threat. If you look into it, you'll see why. I actually hurts the majority party worse. 50 senators of the majority must remain in chambers at all times in case the minority calls a quorum, while only 30 of the minority do. With round the clock schedules, taking three days and nights off every single time a single piece of legislation comes by is just not possible. And that is why it isn't done any more.

So what your saying is it is too much work. I find it hard to gather up much in the way of sympathy for the poor blighted senators. PLUS it does not have to be every bill. Just the ones they feel are important. The "pet projects"

And again, the system could very easily be used against the republicans. Leet people KNOW that such and such bill has been blocked and such and such which would have benefited X will not haooen now. If every bill is blocked or attempted to be blocked eventaully it will bite the republicans in the arse.

Over all for a party that ran on transparity I hear less about what is actually being voted on out of this congress than I have in a long tiome. They spoke more about what was being voted on when the DID NOT have a majority.

Last edited by Opmod (2010-02-28 07:16:08)

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Re: Do Away With the Fillibuster

Opmod wrote:

So what your saying is it is too much work.

roll

Hardly shocked that you've taken a difficult reality and made it some populist simpleheaded buzz-phraze. This is not a Frank Capra movie. Here, read: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29826.html

Opmod wrote:

Over all for a party that ran on transparity I hear less about what is actually being voted on out of this congress than I have in a long tiome.

That's because like most Americans you are lazy and want it all spoon-fed to you. Sorry, our media is a business and sells headlines. What is being voted on is too boring to sell headlines. You actually have to go out and search for that stuff. But it is out there, oh yeah, it's out there. You can find the band-aid proposal by Republican that only covers 3 million, or the proposal by Dems, or the proposal by Obama that covers 30 million. Just pick something and I will look it up for you.

Opmod wrote:

They spoke more about what was being voted on when the DID NOT have a majority.

Yeah, well, I'm sure you can prove that.

Hell is a place where there is no reason.

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Re: Do Away With the Fillibuster

1. What you described to me, having to keep a certain number of each party in the senate room and this being the reason they back down on things is by DEFENTION laziness on thier part. Its thier JOB to do the things they need to to get passed what they feel is the will of thier consituents. Considering the easy life they lead (senators) I do not feel it is too much to ask that they DO that job. The THREAT of a blocked bill should never be the excuse for backing down on something you feel is important. Force the vote or the phlibuster then go to the people and tell them this is why you can't get anything done. Eventually it will either bite the obstructionists in the arse or force them to back down. PONY UP AND SHOW SOME DAMNED BALLS in other words.

2. I know how to find out information on bills and such that I am concerned about, it is not you or me or most of the others who populate this abode or similar websites that need the information spoon feed to them. It is the general populous I am concerned about. The spittle dibble simplistic morons who are most interested in American Idol than the legilative process. As things stabnd now, if you do not LOOK for information then all you will hear is the right side of the arguement becuase they are all thats talking or tlaking the most.

There is nothing wrong with the world. Its the people. Get rid of them and it would be an alright place.

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Re: Do Away With the Fillibuster

Opmod wrote:

1. What you described to me, having to keep a certain number of each party in the senate room and this being the reason they back down on things is by DEFENTION laziness on thier part.

To a simpleton, yes. Reality is, cranks like you bitch when they take a lunch hour off. Three days sitting doing nothing? Reactionary guys like you would have a field day.

Opmod wrote:

Its thier JOB to do the things they need to to get passed what they feel is the will of thier consituents.

Republican Jim Bunning recently held up legislation on extending unemployment for over a week. A ONE MAN FILIBUSTER, executed with simple parliamentary rules. Republicans are quite content to abuse the system until EVERY SINGLE PEICE OF LEGISLATION means wasting America's time with the entire system hekd hostage because you think this is a Capra movie.

Opmod wrote:

Considering the easy life they lead (senators) I do not feel it is too much to ask that they DO that job. The THREAT of a blocked bill should never be the excuse for backing down on something you feel is important. Force the vote or the phlibuster then go to the people and tell them this is why you can't get anything done. Eventually it will either bite the obstructionists in the arse or force them to back down. PONY UP AND SHOW SOME DAMNED BALLS in other words.

I'm sorry, it's just not as simple as "them damn high-livin politicians just got too lazy fer them filibusters, by crackie!" Their job is to MOVE legislation, not sit around for days listening to a dog-and pony show ON EVERY PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

Opmod wrote:

2. I know how to find out information on bills and such that I am concerned about, it is not you or me or most of the others who populate this abode or similar websites that need the information spoon feed to them. It is the general populous I am concerned about. The spittle dibble simplistic morons who are most interested in American Idol than the legilative process. As things stabnd now, if you do not LOOK for information then all you will hear is the right side of the arguement becuase they are all thats talking or tlaking the most.

As things stand now, before and always, if you do not LOOK for information then all you will hear is wingnut talking points shouted into the echo chamber of the larger media. Wing nut ideas make great soundbites because that's all they are, soundbites used as cover for ideas that are intended to 1) make them wealthy, 2) Keep Americans poor so they will be grateful for low wage jobs in their corporations 3) exempt themselves from taxes. They represent a tiny minority of self interest and the rest is just trickery to deceive people who don't benefit from them into voting for them.

Sorry, Democratic ideas cannot fit in an angry soundbite, that's because Democrats actually have ideas. Democracy is work, and the fault belongs to the American public for not being informed and so easily deceived.

Hell is a place where there is no reason.

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Re: Do Away With the Fillibuster

cybert wrote:

Republican Jim Bunning recently held up legislation on extending unemployment for over a week. A ONE MAN FILIBUSTER, executed with simple parliamentary rules. Republicans are quite content to abuse the system until EVERY SINGLE PEICE OF LEGISLATION means wasting America's time with the entire system hekd hostage because you think this is a Capra movie.

Do not blame the Rebulicans for Bunning. Even they wanted him to relent.

No I am not claim those high faluten what ever you called them,,they do have an extremely easy life compared to the reward. Futhermore,  I would thank you to stop with the charecter and intellegence attacks or I will be forced to responde in kind. Yes I DO beleive they should sit in chambers for 3 days straight if that is what it takes. If they do not have the will to take the steps to get doen what they wish to then they have only themselves to blame.

I DO want them to discuss and break down every peice of legislation that rolls down the track, if such was the norm, if every congressman was forced to KNOW what the bill they are voting on entails, we would most liekly have much simpler bills and alot of very bad legislation would be stopped before it became law. As the system stands now there is little to no chance that ANY member of either legislative brach has a CLUE what is actually in the bills they are voting for. Instead they vote for the NAME of the bill.

Yo can claim whatever you want but the democrats are the ones that STARTED the philibuster fest during the Bush administration. In the past the appointment of federal judges was a give me for the president excepting of course the supreme court. The democrats decided to make it a political ploy, now they must sleep in the bed they have made just as the republicans must deal with Obama having all those nice little executive powers that Bush carved out for the office.

YES the republicans are using it to thier advatage, thats the system. I don't know that I like or dislike the use of it but I WOULD like to see more calling of the "other side" when it is used.

There is nothing wrong with the world. Its the people. Get rid of them and it would be an alright place.

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Re: Do Away With the Fillibuster

Opmod wrote:

Do not blame the Rebulicans for Bunning. Even they wanted him to relent.

Well. Some did. Some didn't.

Former House Majority Leader Tom Delay called Sen. Jim Bunning (R-Ky.) "brave" on Sunday for launching a one-man filibuster of unemployment benefits, arguing that they dissuaded people from going out and finding work.
"You know," Delay said, "there is an argument to be made that these extensions, the unemployment benefits keeps people from going and finding jobs. In fact there are some studies that have been done that show people stay on unemployment compensation and they don't look for a job until two or three weeks before they know the benefits are going to run out.
CROWLEY: Congressman, that's a hard sell, isn't it?
DELAY: It's the truth.

CROWLEY: People are unemployed because they want to be?

DELAY: Well, it is the truth. and people in the real world know it. And they have friends and they know it. Sure, we ought to be helping people that are unemployed find a job, but we also have budget considerations that are incredibly important, especially now that Obama is spending monies that we don't have.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/0 … 89050.html

You know. Budget considerations. Like slashing taxes on the rich. Ever heard of the "death tax?" It affects the richest 0.25 percent of Americans! Now THAT'S a consideration!

Sen. Jon Kyl of Arizona, the Republican whip, argued that unemployment benefits dissuade people from job-hunting "because people are being paid even though they're not working."

Unemployment insurance "doesn't create new jobs. In fact, if anything, continuing to pay people unemployment compensation is a disincentive for them to seek new work," Kyl said during debate over whether unemployment insurance and other benefits that expired amid GOP objections Sunday should be extended. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/0 … 81526.html

Bunning and his buddies loved the budget-busting tax cuts of 2001 and 2003. Where was their "concern" for the deficit then?

http://www.cbpp.org/images/cms//12-16-09bud-rev2-17-10-f1.jpg

Last edited by jpn of Seattle (2010-03-08 20:47:52)

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