Re: Climate change religion unraveling?

pinko -- it's all about worldcat.org smile

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Climate change religion unraveling?

What did the recent "concerns" over the science behind global warming really amount to?

Yesterday the pros at RealClimate went through all the complaints and basically concluded that there's only one actual error in the report: the claim that Himalayan glaciers would be mostly gone by 2035. "Fixing this error involves deleting two sentences on page 493 of the WG2 report," they say, and it was never central to the report's conclusions anyway.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar … -and-spin/

Highlight (for me):

To those familiar with the science and the IPCC’s work, the current media discussion is in large part simply absurd and surreal. Journalists who have never even peeked into the IPCC report are now outraged that one wrong number appears on page 493 of Volume 2. We’ve met TV teams coming to film a report on the IPCC reports’ errors, who were astonished when they held one of the heavy volumes in hand, having never even seen it. They told us frankly that they had no way to make their own judgment; they could only report what they were being told about it. And there are well-organized lobby forces with proper PR skills that make sure these journalists are being told the “right” story. That explains why some media stories about what is supposedly said in the IPCC reports can easily be falsified simply by opening the report and reading. Unfortunately, as a broad-based volunteer effort with only minimal organizational structure the IPCC is not in a good position to rapidly counter misinformation.

....What apparently has happened is that interested quarters, after the Himalyan glacier story broke, have sifted through the IPCC volumes with a fine-toothed comb, hoping to find more embarrassing errors. They have actually found precious little, but the little they did find was promptly hyped into Seagate, Africagate, Amazongate and so on. This has some similarity to the CRU email theft, where precious little was discovered from among thousands of emails, but a few sentences were plucked out of context, deliberately misinterpreted (like “hide the decline”) and then hyped into “Climategate”.

As Kevin Drum notes: "Basically, we had the CRU emails, which were genuinely embarrassing even if they didn't affect the science much, followed by the glacier debacle, and that was enough to make pretty much any other allegations look like they might be plausible too. So the anti-warming forces went to town." http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/ … ate-change

Last edited by jpn of Seattle (2010-02-16 20:34:57)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Climate change religion unraveling?

but hey, look at all the newspapers and magazines sold to climate denialists...

kinda works out like a Dunning-Kruger tax...

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Climate change religion unraveling?

jpn of Seattle wrote:
Abraxas wrote:

But these are measures that are either too lienient for enviromental extremists or too strict for Big Oil and its supporters.

It makes me so angry I wanna spit!

mad

There are many of us (including the Obama administration) who acknowlege that nuclear power has to be a part of the solution.
The only thing that makes me angry enough to spit are those who choose what they believe and don't believ based on their pre-existing ideology rather than what the informed experts are saying.

By the way, mainstream economists believe that cap and trade is one of the economically most efficient means of reducing our dependence on fossile fuels...

Ok lets look at the cost of cap and trade according to an economist.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/21/busin … 1view.html

According to estimates by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a tax of $80 a metric ton on carbon dioxide — or a cap-and-trade system with similar charges — would stabilize temperatures by midcentury.

This figure was determined, however, before the arrival of more pessimistic estimates on the pace of global warming. So let’s assume a tax of $300 a ton, just to be safe.

Under such a tax, the prices of goods would rise in proportion to their carbon footprints — in the case of gasoline, for example, by roughly $2.60 a gallon

The average price of gas in the US was $2.64 as of Friday afternoon in the US. An increase of $2.40 would be a 90% price increase. Lets assume that the food you eat, the clothes you wear, the everything manufactured you use on a day to day basis is only carried over the roads once even though it is more than that no doubt. Are you prepared to pay 90% more for everything you consume on a  daily basis? Are you going to tell families that are barely getting by or even are NOT getting by that you are about to raise the cost of EVERYTHING by 90%?

Christ most of these people are lucky to HAVE a car and the possibility of CHANGING to a more efficient car is a pipe dream. To state that the cost difference could be changed simply by getting a more efficient car is childish in its naivety.

There is nothing wrong with the world. Its the people. Get rid of them and it would be an alright place.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Climate change religion unraveling?

^^^ see post 20, this thread

and realize you are holding the current state of the auto market fixed in an attempt to make a case for a hypothetical future

sad to see you have such little faith in the market's ability to react to a changing environment

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Climate change religion unraveling?

climate religion is bs.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Climate change religion unraveling?

chovy should've wrote:

climate religion is a strawman.

fify

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Climate change religion unraveling?

smile

climate religion is like all other religions.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Climate change religion unraveling?

^^^prepending that sentence with, "I feel" would remove it from the landfill of unsubstantiated assertions

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Climate change religion unraveling?

The anatomy of a climate "scandal":

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democrac … istortions
Includes video to help explain "significance" in terms of statistics.

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

Re: Climate change religion unraveling?

allpoints wrote:

^^^prepending that sentence with, "I feel" would remove it from the landfill of unsubstantiated assertions

point taken allpoints (pun intended).

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Climate change religion unraveling?

Climate religion is b---s---, which is also the smelly substance that underlies all other religions, in my opinion.

Climate science, on the other hand, is founded on reality and uses the scientific method to self-conciously and systematically remove bias and unfounded imaginings.

I can't think of two more diametrically opposed human endevors than religion and science.

Thumbs up Thumbs down